I'm being driven out says second expert to link autism and jabs
By Daniel Foggo
(Filed: 02/10/2005)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/02/naut02.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/02/ixhome.html
A former government adviser who has controversially linked infant
vaccines to autism in children claims she is the victim of a
disciplinary action "witch-hunt".

The child psychologist Lisa Blakemore-Brown believes that her
outspokenness has made her enemies in the pharmaceutical business and
in the Government.

Ms Blakemore-Brown, 57, has expounded the theory that diphtheria,
tetanus and pertussis innoculations routinely given to babies at two
months could be linked to autism and a range of allergies. She is
facing disciplinary charges after being officially accused by the
British Psychological Society of being potentially unfit to practise
and of being paranoid.

She says she is the victim of a "witch-hunt" and believes her situation
echoes that of Dr Andrew Wakefield, the gastroenterologist whose
research linked the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine to a national
rise in autism.

This resulted in a widespread campaign to discredit his work and
culminated in his being forced out of his job.

Ms Blakemore-Brown has been ordered to attend a confidential hearing
later this month where a panel will decide on her future.

Until last year, the DTP innoculations given to British babies
contained a perservative called thiomersal, which is made of 50 per
cent mercury.

Ms Blakemore-Brown has backed the stance of several scientists who
claimed that excess levels of mercury in an infant's body could be a
precursor for autism.

She has also widely criticised the medical establishment for falsely
accusing cot death mothers of murder.

She has denounced what she says is a tendency within health agencies to
label the parents of genuinely autistic children as having Munchausen's
Syndrome By Proxy.

This is a controversial condition widely diagnosed by the now disgraced
professors Roy Meadows and David Southall.

Between 1996 and 2002 Ms Blakemore-Brown repeatedly wrote to Tony
Blair, the prime minister, and ministers warning that miscarriages of
justice were happening to women convicted of killing their babies as a
result of having MSBP, when in fact the fatalities were cot deaths.

A number of women jailed for this have now had their convictions
overturned on appeal.

Now Ms Blakemore-Brown, who has works as an independent educational
psychologist assessing the needs of children and adults with autism and
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, says that a whispering
campaign against her has caused her to lose business.

As a member of the BPS - of which she is also an associated fellow -
since 1987, if she is deemed unfit to practise she will be stripped of
her chartered status and will in effect become an outcast within the
profession.
"I have made enemies in the past 10 years, of that there is no doubt,"
she said last night. "Things have gone on which seem beyond
coincidence, such as people hacking into my e-mail account and some
years ago a woman stole documents from my house and tried to access my
bank account."

The decision by the BPS to bring Ms Blakemore-Brown before a "fitness
to practise" hearing stems from a complaint made by a client who
alleged that she failed to liaise properly with her after assessing her
son for ADHD.

Last night, the BPS refused to comment.

I am shocked at peoples response with obvious lack of knowledge, do you
think that someone with so many years of profesional and first hand
experience would 'bandy' false off the top of your head type scare
mongering .......... I don't think so. These conclusions have been
drawn from years and years of research, hard work and having the
passion and drive to change something that could potentially 'touch' us
all.

Lynn

"lynndb"  wrote in message 
news:1128954010.588052.312910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

>
>
> I am shocked at peoples response with obvious lack of knowledge, do you
> think that someone with so many years of profesional and first hand
> experience would 'bandy' false off the top of your head type scare
> mongering .......... I don't think so.


Sure, sure... http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm


These conclusions have been

> drawn from years and years of research, hard work and having the
> passion and drive to change something that could potentially 'touch' us
> all.


Would you mind sharing what some of that "research" was?  We all know that 
Wakefield's research was bought and paid for by a law firm... and that some 
"research" is mostly in the form of a salespitch, 
http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=234 ---

BUT... that real people have been hurt or killed by some of this "research":
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05237/559756.stm

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1943892005

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12692850.htm

http://www.healthwatch-uk.org/hw59.htm#autism


Here is some of the research I much prefer:

http://www.nap.edu/catalog/10208.html
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/112/3/604
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/347/19/1477


>
> Lynn
> 

Jeff wrote:

> "john"  wrote in message
> news:1128843744.707247.10080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > I'm being driven out says second expert to link autism and jabs
> (...)
>
> > She ... believes her situation
> > echoes that of Dr Andrew Wakefield, the gastroenterologist whose
> > research linked the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine to a national
> > rise in autism.
>
> True. Both are nuts who have little evidence for their beliefs.
>
> 'nough said.
>
> Jeff


And, of course, someone without medical credentials should be trusted
to make such a determination, right Jeff?  

PeterB

In article ,
PeterB  wrote:

>
>David Wright wrote:
>> In article ,
>> PeterB  wrote:
>> >
>> >Jeff wrote:
>> >> "john"  wrote in message
>> >> news:1128843744.707247.10080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > I'm being driven out says second expert to link autism and jabs
>> >> (...)
>> >>
>> >> > She ... believes her situation
>> >> > echoes that of Dr Andrew Wakefield, the gastroenterologist whose
>> >> > research linked the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine to a national
>> >> > rise in autism.
>> >>
>> >> True. Both are nuts who have little evidence for their beliefs.
>> >>
>> >> 'nough said.
>> >>
>> >> Jeff
>> >
>> >And, of course, someone without medical credentials should be trusted
>> >to make such a determination, right Jeff?
>>
>> Like you, PB?  Jeff, at least, has an MD.  How 'bout you?
>
>Unless he is involved in vaccine research, his comment as an MD
>(assuming he is one) is even more reprehensible.  It isn't appropriate
>for medically trained persons to refer to others, especially
>researchers, as "nuts."  


Why not, if the description is accurate?  Would it somehow be
preferable to do it using equivalent medical terminology, which adds
up to the same thing?

  -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net 
     These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

Is no one concerned about receiving a vaccine preserved with
Thimerasol?

In article ,
eml  wrote:

>Is no one concerned about receiving a vaccine preserved with
>Thimerasol?


1)  If you're an adult, it doesn't matter, even if you're an adult
    acting like a frightened child.

2)  There are thimerosal-free versions of flu vaccine made.

  -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net 
     These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

'Sales Pitch' !!!... Do you know how many children Lisa Blakemore-Brown
has helped, how many cases of obvious vaccine damage she has seen.
'Nuts' she most certainly isnt. She is fighting for something she knows
is right and certain people are scared by this.

"eml"  wrote in message 
news:1128970352.354962.141530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Is no one concerned about receiving a vaccine preserved with
> Thimerasol?
>


What are the quanities?  What levels are you worried about?  Do you even 
know what they are?  See:
http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm

What are the storage conditions?  Does everyone have the luxery of 
refridgeration or even the power to accomplish that?  How good would a 
tetanus vaccine supply be after a major hurricane like Katrina or earthquake 
that just hit Pakistan?  You may want to read this:
http://www.who.int/biologicals/publications/trs/areas/vaccines/thiomersal 
especially this part,  "Experience shows that eliminating or reducing 
thiomersal from an existing product can have some unexpected effects on 
vaccine quality, safety and
efficacy. Effects on vaccine stability might also be expected. "

"lynndb"  wrote in message 
news:1128971110.276634.79760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> 'Sales Pitch' !!!... Do you know how many children Lisa Blakemore-Brown
> has helped, how many cases of obvious vaccine damage she has seen.
> 'Nuts' she most certainly isnt. She is fighting for something she knows
> is right and certain people are scared by this.
>


No.  Why don't you tell us with some nice verifiable references.

"lynndb"  wrote in message 
news:1128971110.276634.79760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> 'Sales Pitch' !!!... Do you know how many children Lisa Blakemore-Brown
> has helped, how many cases of obvious vaccine damage she has seen.
> 'Nuts' she most certainly isnt. She is fighting for something she knows
> is right and certain people are scared by this.
>


The purpose of science is the sorting out of the "obvious" from the true.
-- 


--Rich

Recommended websites:

 http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
 http://www.acahf.org.au
 http://www.quackwatch.org/
 http://www.skeptic.com/
 http://www.csicop.org/

Ilena Rose wrote:

> Typical behavior of the Quacks to go after scientists and medical
> doctors (licensed ones, not like Barrett) 


There is absolutely no evidence that during the over 35 years Dr. 
Barrett had maintained his license that there was any complaints or 
disciplinary actions against him.

How do I know? If there had been, you, Bolen, et al would have plastered 
it all over the world.

He is a *retired* physician and allowed his license to go dormant as he 
is not treating any patients. To say otherwise is utterly misleading.

.... in every and all ways

> possible. Weedkiller just follows orders from her 'superiors' LOL LOL
> Barrett & Polevoy and posts their harassments here.
> 
> Typically,after the Quacks go after good doctors for years, attempting
> to destroy their lives ... 


Kadile, Suster....

the biggest "sin" they find is some

> questionable bookeeping adn then BarrettWeedkiller posts about it like
> it's her banner of pride.


It is not questionable bookeeping. It is the maintaining of incorrect or 
inadequate medical records. In medicine, proper record keeping is an 
absolute essential to maintain quality care.


> Other times ... they have caused unconscienable problems ... and the
> doctors are totally proven to have been harassed. Dr. Sinaiko was on
> the these.


Sinaiko was proerly charged at the time. He settled and got his license 
back due to lapse of time.


> On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 11:13:53 -0400, "Nana Weedkiller"
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Here's another waiting for a decision.
>>
>>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/09/nmmr09.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/09/ixhome.html
>>
>>GP who gave MMR warning faces sack
>>By Daniel Foggo
>>(Filed: 09/10/2005)
>>
>>A doctor who has spoken of the possible dangers of children receiving the 
>>measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) and other vaccinations has been charged with 
>>serious professional misconduct by the General Medical Council.
>>
>>Dr Jayne Donegan, 47, is being disciplined over her decision to give expert 
>>court testimony on the issue. Her situation echoes the plight of Dr Andrew 
>>Wakefield, the gastro-enterologist forced to resign after his evidence 
>>linking the MMR jab to autism in children angered the government, drug 
>>industry and medical establishment.
>>
> 
> 

LadyLollipop wrote:

> "HCN"  wrote
> 
> <snip diversion>


It is not a diversion to ppoint out that this physician is following in 
Wakefield's slime which caused a massive epidemic in Great Britain. Only 
a child hater would think otherwise.


> 
>>"john"  wrote in message 
>>news:1128843744.707247.10080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>I'm being driven out says second expert to link autism and jabs
>>>By Daniel Foggo
>>>(Filed: 02/10/2005)
>>>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/02/naut02.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/02/ixhome.html
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 

lynndb wrote:

> 
> I am shocked at peoples response with obvious lack of knowledge, do you
> think that someone with so many years of profesional and first hand
> experience would 'bandy' false off the top of your head type scare
> mongering .......... I don't think so. 


Yes, I do think so. The physician in question is following in the slime 
steps of Andy Wakefield, who has been totally dicredited for rotten 
science and lousier ethics.

These conclusions have been

> drawn from years and years of research, hard work and having the
> passion and drive to change something that could potentially 'touch' us
> all.

eml wrote:

> Is no one concerned about receiving a vaccine preserved with
> Thimerasol?
> 


Nope. Not in the slightest. I had my thimerosal laced flu shot on 
Saturday, and, much to the chagrin of many in these groups,

I AM STILL HERE.

"eml"  wrote:


>Is no one concerned about receiving a vaccine preserved with
>Thimerasol?


No.

Which vaccines would they be?
-- 
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"lynndb"  wrote:


>
>'Sales Pitch' !!!... Do you know how many children Lisa Blakemore-Brown
>has helped,


Yes. None.


>how many cases of obvious vaccine damage she has seen.


Yes. None.


>'Nuts' she most certainly isnt. She is fighting for something she knows
>is right and certain people are scared by this.


Scared? What is scary is that people might believe this nut and put
their children at risk by avoiding vaccination.
-- 
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

I am not anti-vac !!, both my children had the MMR jabs. I also
understand that a widespread epidemic could potentially be tragic. Im
just shocked at how blinkered some people have become, why try to
strike someone off when they devote their entire lives to changing
others lives for the better, and its all well and good going along with
the research we are given to read, but surely when you actually see
children who are damaged by vaccine, each and everyone of us would want
to start asking questions and find out why !!

lynndb wrote:


> I am not anti-vac !!, both my children had the MMR jabs. I also
> understand that a widespread epidemic could potentially be tragic. Im
> just shocked at how blinkered some people have become, why try to
> strike someone off when they devote their entire lives to changing
> others lives for the better, and its all well and good going along with
> the research we are given to read, but surely when you actually see
> children who are damaged by vaccine, each and everyone of us would want
> to start asking questions and find out why !!
> 


I for one did not claim you were anti-vac. I just noted that despite 
your claim that it seems you only get to hear one side, you obviously 
got information from both sides, therefor falsifying that claim. And the 
immensily flawed study claiming a link between vaccines and autism got 
way, way more attention then followup studies which showed why the 
original study was flawed and that found no link at all.

And yes, surely when you actually see children who *seem to be* (!!) 
damaged by vaccines you start to ask questions. And these questions were 
asked, matters were researched and it turns out that as far as autism is 
concerned, there is zero evidence to be found that vaccines cause 
autism. The evidence we have clearly shows that if we actually want to 
find a cause for autism, we should stop wasting valuable time and money 
into looking at vaccines as a cause. Any further waste of sparse 
resources on research in that direction will distract from finding the 
real cause of autism and is therefor damaging to all people suffering 
from autism.

lynndb wrote:

> I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
> with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
> we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
> has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
> hope and the help they need for a happier future.
> 
> Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
> children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
> who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
> this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
> affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
> that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
> our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
> that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
> damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
> the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
> children to.


You clearly accept that thimerosal causes autism, and I strongly beleive 
that you would dismiss any research showing no link as not being "fiar 
research."

lynndb wrote:

> Do you not think that sometimes we are only given the information that
> certain people want us to hear ?? It is curious that the government
> have a huge fund for vaccine damage considering many think it doesnt
> happen !



No sequitur. However, several large epidemiological studies on various 
populations have shown that there is no link. The findings have been 
replicated and duplicated, which is one of the hallmarks of scientific 
accuracy.

"lynndb"  wrote in message 
news:1129017905.882231.290970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
> with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
> we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
> has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
> hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>
> Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
> children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
> who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
> this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
> affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
> that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
> our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
> that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
> damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
> the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
> children to.
>


One major caveat:  Ms. Blackmore-Brown is a psychologist.  This means she is 
not a medical doctor and if she is "diagnosing" some kind of "vaccine 
damage" due to thimerosal she is going beyond her training.  If she is in 
fact trying to play "doctor" then she should be disciplined (and a quick 
Google search finds that this is not the first time that she has been 
checked out).

I have heard of speech therapists who have actually tried to "diagnose" 
medical problems or have tried to refer children to chiropractors, cranial 
sacral therapists or even to recommend supplements.  This is also OUTside 
their boundaries, and can bring their licensing board upon them (especially 
if they have a relationship with any of the outside providers).

Do you have any papers written by this person?  Do you have any journal 
references on this "research" you speak of (forget Wakefield or anything 
written in "Medical Hypothesis"... the former because his "research was 
bought and paid for by lawyers, and the latter requires you to look up the 
definition of the word "hypothesis").

HCN wrote:

> "lynndb"  wrote in message 
> news:1129017905.882231.290970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> 
>>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>>with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>>we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>>has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>>hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>>
>>Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>>children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>>who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>>this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>>affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>>that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>>our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>>that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>>damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>>the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>>children to.
>>
> 
> 
> One major caveat:  Ms. Blackmore-Brown is a psychologist.  This means she is 
> not a medical doctor and if she is "diagnosing" some kind of "vaccine 
> damage" due to thimerosal she is going beyond her training.  If she is in 
> fact trying to play "doctor" then she should be disciplined (and a quick 
> Google search finds that this is not the first time that she has been 
> checked out).
> 
> I have heard of speech therapists who have actually tried to "diagnose" 
> medical problems or have tried to refer children to chiropractors, cranial 
> sacral therapists or even to recommend supplements.  This is also OUTside 
> their boundaries, and can bring their licensing board upon them (especially 
> if they have a relationship with any of the outside providers).
> 
> Do you have any papers written by this person?  


Google Scholar:

Your search - Lisa Blackmore-Brown - did not match any articles.

Your search - Blackmore-Brown - did not match any articles.

PublicMed:

The following term was not found and ignored: Blackmore-Brown.

http://www.highbeam.com/ref/ref_search.asp?M=Y&more=1

No results found for Blackmore-Brown..


Do you have any journal

> references on this "research" you speak of (forget Wakefield or anything 
> written in "Medical Hypothesis"... the former because his "research was 
> bought and paid for by lawyers, and the latter requires you to look up the 
> definition of the word "hypothesis"). 
> 
> 

lynndb wrote:

> I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
> with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
> we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
> has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
> hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>
> Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
> children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
> who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
> this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
> affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
> that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
> our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
> that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
> damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
> the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
> children to.


Exactly right, Lynn.  If you read the responses of our resident pharma
bloggers to your comment, however, you will see why this has been an
uphill battle.  You are not seeing the comments of casual participants
regarding vaccine, but reps for industry paid to hold onto as much
"mind share" as they can.  When enough people wake up, things can
finally change.  

PeterB

PeterB wrote:

> lynndb wrote:
> 
>>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>>with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>>we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>>has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>>hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>>
>>Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>>children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>>who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>>this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>>affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>>that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>>our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>>that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>>damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>>the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>>children to.
> 
> 
> Exactly right, Lynn.  If you read the responses of our resident pharma
> bloggers to your comment, however, you will see why this has been an
> uphill battle.  You are not seeing the comments of casual participants
> regarding vaccine, but reps for industry paid to hold onto as much
> "mind share" as they can.  When enough people wake up, things can
> finally change.  
> 
> PeterB
> 


For the unaware:
please note that PeterB is person with a psychiatric disorder of which 
paranoia and delusions of grandeur are a part. He thinks 'Big 
Pharma'(whoever they are) is paying people to post on newsgroups. This 
is the paranoia part. He also thinks he is so important that 'Big 
Pharma' has a whole group of people in their service to respond to his 
posts. That's the delusion of grandeur part. For this, he invented a 
whole new word, 'pharma blogger', ignoring the accepted definition of 
'blogging' and 'blogger'. He also has his own definition of the word 
'casual' and who knows what else. Please note that PeterB has no 
evidence to back up this claim, or any others he has. All he has, and 
all he apparently needs, are his opinions.
With regard to the evidence of a link between thimerosal and autism:
please note that for PeterB, one immensely flawed study done by a lawyer 
involved in suing vaccine producers for causing autism with their 
products (and therefor having a big stake in the outcome) is perfectly 
acceptable evidence for a link between thimerosal and autism, while all 
the followup studies, who were independant, in his mind were all done by 
'Big Pharma' and because they had a big stake in the outcome, the 
studies are bunk. Such are the logical thinking skills of PeterB.
You will also notice that in reply to this post, he will not come up 
with any coherent arguments, but will simply accuse me of being a 
'pharma blogger', as if that will make the facts against his case go away.

PeterB wrote:


> lynndb wrote:
> > I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
> > with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
> > we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
> > has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
> > hope and the help they need for a happier future.
> >
> > Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
> > children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
> > who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
> > this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
> > affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
> > that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
> > our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
> > that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
> > damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
> > the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
> > children to.
>
> Exactly right, Lynn.  If you read the responses of our resident pharma
> bloggers to your comment, however, you will see why this has been an
> uphill battle.  You are not seeing the comments of casual participants
> regarding vaccine, but reps for industry paid to hold onto as much
> "mind share" as they can.  When enough people wake up, things can
> finally change.


I see. PeteyB does not address the fact that people have commented on
the research that has been done and that has shown that there is no
link between vaccinations and autism. Because that's not part of his
agenda.

He still has no evidence to back up his claims that vaccines are only
10% effective, nor does he have any evidence that anyone on this
newsgroup is paid by industry, yet he continues to spout his rubbish.

What a plonker.

Cathy
 

> 
> PeterB

PeterB wrote:

> lynndb wrote:
> 
>>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>>with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>>we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>>has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>>hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>>
>>Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>>children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>>who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>>this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>>affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>>that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>>our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>>that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>>damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>>the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>>children to.
> 
> 
> Exactly right, Lynn.  If you read the responses of our resident pharma
> bloggers to your comment, however, you will see why this has been an
> uphill battle.  You are not seeing the comments of casual participants
> regarding vaccine, but reps for industry paid to hold onto as much
> "mind share" as they can.  When enough people wake up, things can
> finally change.  


Petey, you should post a disclaimer when smearing people:

"THIS IS MY PET THEORY AND THE EXISTENCE OF PHARMABLOGGER, A WORD I MADE 
UP, HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN. I HAVE A NEED TO DISCREDIT THOSE WHO DISAGREE 
WITH ME, SINCE I CANNOT FIND ANY FACTS THAT SHOW THAT THEY ARE WRONG."

PeterB wrote:

> lynndb wrote:
> 
>>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>>with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>>we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>>has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>>hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>>
>>Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>>children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>>who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>>this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>>affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>>that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>>our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>>that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>>damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>>the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>>children to.
> 
> 
> Exactly right, Lynn.  If you read the responses of our resident pharma
> bloggers to your comment, however, you will see why this has been an
> uphill battle.  You are not seeing the comments of casual participants
> regarding vaccine, but reps for industry paid to hold onto as much
> "mind share" as they can.  When enough people wake up, things can
> finally change.  


This yarn was already written and it appeared on Broadway.

"Mark Probert"  wrote in message 
news:bTP2f.2605$Hm3.1735@fe09.lga...

> HCN wrote:

....>> Do you have any papers written by this person?

>
> Google Scholar:
>
> Your search - Lisa Blackmore-Brown - did not match any articles.
>
> Your search - Blackmore-Brown - did not match any articles.
>
> PublicMed:
>
> The following term was not found and ignored: Blackmore-Brown.
>
> http://www.highbeam.com/ref/ref_search.asp?M=Y&more=1
>
> No results found for Blackmore-Brown..
>


(I kind of assumed that would be the results.  I guessed that the "research" 
touted was a bunch of hot air.... much like many use Buttar's testimony to a 
bunch of gullible polititians as "proof" his cream works).




>
> Do you have any journal
>> references on this "research" you speak of (forget Wakefield or anything 
>> written in "Medical Hypothesis"... the former because his "research was 
>> bought and paid for by lawyers, and the latter requires you to look up 
>> the definition of the word "hypothesis"). 

"cathyb"  wrote in message 
news:1129018282.779420.34800@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> lynndb wrote:
>> I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>> with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>> we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>> has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>> hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>>
>> Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>> children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>> who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>> this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>> affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>> that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>> our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>> that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>> damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>> the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>> children to.
>
> The fair research has been done. Over and over, yet no matter how often
> the studies show no link between, for instance, autism and vaccination,
> the 'nuts' refuse to accept it.
>
> Cathy


Actually that's NOT true, you can see which group calls names.


   http://www.flu.org.cn/news/2004986362.htm
      Thimerosal,New study reopens debate on vaccinations
      Published: Sep ,8,2004 16:21 PM
      By ###
      Special to The Wall Street Journal & Medicalnewstoday



By Tara Parker-Pope
The Wall Street Journal

Just a few months after the nation's top medical adviser rejected a link
between vaccines and autism, a mouse study has reignited the debate and
raised new fears among parents considering vaccinations and flu shots for
their kids.


For years, a cadre of parents and physicians have contended that thimerosal,
an ethyl-mercury compound that has been one of the most widely used vaccine
preservatives, is partly responsible for an apparent rise in autism in
recent decades. But broad population studies haven't supported the claim. In
May, a major report from the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety
Review Committee rejected a link between autism and vaccines.



But today, a congressional committee will review a June study from Columbia
University, which found that a preservative used in vaccines can cause
autism-like symptoms in a specific strain of mice. The research raises
questions about whether some people might be genetically vulnerable to the
effects of thimerosal.



The study also raises questions about a new push by the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention to add flu shots to the immunization schedule for
school-age kids. The vast majority of flu shots given still contain the
preservative.



In the study, researchers administered thimerosal to four strains of young
mice. Three of the mice strains were unaffected by thimerosal, but the
fourth developed problems consistent with autism such as delayed growth,
social withdrawal and brain abnormalities. The mice were known to have a
genetic susceptibility to mercury.



Thimerosal, found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of
autism-like damage in mice



A new study indicates that postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a mercury
preservative commonly used in a number of childhood vaccines, can lead to
the development of autism-like damage in autoimmune disease susceptible
mice. This animal model, the first to show that the administration of
low-dose ethylmercury can lead to behavioral and neurological changes in the
developing brain, reinforces previous studies showing that a genetic
predisposition affects risk in combination with certain environmental
triggers. The study was conducted by researchers at the Jerome L. and Dawn
Greene

Infectious Disease Laboratory at the Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University. Over the past 20 years, there has been a striking
increase--at least ten-fold since 1985--in the number of children diagnosed
with autism spectrum disorders. Genetic factors alone cannot account for
this rise in prevalence. Researchers at the Mailman School, led by Dr. Mady
Hornig, created an animal model to explore the relationship between
thimerosal (ethylmercury) and autism, hypothesizing that the combination of
genetic susceptibility and environmental exposure to mercury in childhood
vaccines may cause neurotoxicity.

Cumulative mercury burden through other sources, including in utero
exposures to mercury in fish or vaccines, may also lead to damage in
susceptible hosts. Timing and quantity of thimerosal dosing for the mouse
model were developed using the U.S. immunization schedule for children, with
doses calculated for mice based on 10th percentile weight of U.S. boys at
age two, four, six, and twelve months.

The researchers found the subset of autoimmune disease susceptible mice with
thimerosal exposure to express many important aspects of the behavioral and
neuropathologic features of autism spectrum disorders, including:

Abnormal response to novel environments;

Behavioral impoverishment (limited range of behaviors and decreased
exploration of environment); Significant abnormalities in brain
architecture, affecting areas subserving emotion and cognition; Increased
brain size.

These findings have relevance for identification of autism cases relating to
environmental factors; design of treatment strategies; and development of
rational immunization programs. The use of thimerosal in vaccines has been
reduced over the past few years, although it is still present in some
influenza vaccines. Identifying the connection between genetic
susceptibility and an environmental trigger for autism--in this case
thimerosal exposure--is important because it may promote discovery of
effective interventions for and limit exposure in a specific population,
stated the lead author Dr. Mady Hornig. Because the developing brain can be
exposed to toxins that are long gone by the time symptoms appear, clues
gathered in these animal models can then be evaluated through prospective
human birth cohorts--providing a powerful to tool to dissect the interaction
between genes and the environment over time.

Citation source: Molecular Psychiatry 2004 Volume 9, advance on line
publication doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001529

For further information on this work, please contact Mady Hornig, MD,
Columbia University, Mailman School of Public Health, Greene Infectious
Disease Laboratory, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032, United States
of America, phone: 212-342-9036; FAX: 949-824-1229; e-mail:
mh2092@columbia.edu

ARTICLE: "Neurotoxic effects of postnatal thimerosal are mouse
strain-dependent"

M Hornig, D Chian, W. I. Lipkin

Greene Infectious Disease Laboratory, Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032

"JohnDoe"  wrote in message 
news:434b918c$0$5212$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl...

> lynndb wrote:
>> Do you not think that sometimes we are only given the information that
>> certain people want us to hear ?? It is curious that the government
>> have a huge fund for vaccine damage considering many think it doesnt
>> happen !
>
> 1) nobody denies that vaccines can cause adverse reactions in some, just 
> not autism.
>
> 2) vaccine producers threatened to stop producing vaccines faced with the 
> threat of expensive lawsuits (lawsuits tend to be extremely expensive even 
> if you don't lose them). No vaccines would mean disaster so the government 
> took measures to secure the availability of vaccines and save lives. If 
> anything, that fund is to be able to financially handle lawsuits, not to 
> compensate people for damage caused by vaccines and certainly not because 
> there is a link between vaccines and autism, since there is no link.
>
> 3) you obviously have gotten information from the anti-vac crowd, so your 
> claim that we are only give the information that certain people want to us 
> to hear is hereby proven totally baseless.


This LIE is repeated.


   http://www.flu.org.cn/news/2004986362.htm
      Thimerosal,New study reopens debate on vaccinations
      Published: Sep ,8,2004 16:21 PM
      By ###
      Special to The Wall Street Journal & Medicalnewstoday



By Tara Parker-Pope
The Wall Street Journal

Just a few months after the nation's top medical adviser rejected a link
between vaccines and autism, a mouse study has reignited the debate and
raised new fears among parents considering vaccinations and flu shots for
their kids.


For years, a cadre of parents and physicians have contended that thimerosal,
an ethyl-mercury compound that has been one of the most widely used vaccine
preservatives, is partly responsible for an apparent rise in autism in
recent decades. But broad population studies haven't supported the claim. In
May, a major report from the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety
Review Committee rejected a link between autism and vaccines.



But today, a congressional committee will review a June study from Columbia
University, which found that a preservative used in vaccines can cause
autism-like symptoms in a specific strain of mice. The research raises
questions about whether some people might be genetically vulnerable to the
effects of thimerosal.



The study also raises questions about a new push by the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention to add flu shots to the immunization schedule for
school-age kids. The vast majority of flu shots given still contain the
preservative.



In the study, researchers administered thimerosal to four strains of young
mice. Three of the mice strains were unaffected by thimerosal, but the
fourth developed problems consistent with autism such as delayed growth,
social withdrawal and brain abnormalities. The mice were known to have a
genetic susceptibility to mercury.



Thimerosal, found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of
autism-like damage in mice



A new study indicates that postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a mercury
preservative commonly used in a number of childhood vaccines, can lead to
the development of autism-like damage in autoimmune disease susceptible
mice. This animal model, the first to show that the administration of
low-dose ethylmercury can lead to behavioral and neurological changes in the
developing brain, reinforces previous studies showing that a genetic
predisposition affects risk in combination with certain environmental
triggers. The study was conducted by researchers at the Jerome L. and Dawn
Greene

Infectious Disease Laboratory at the Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University. Over the past 20 years, there has been a striking
increase--at least ten-fold since 1985--in the number of children diagnosed
with autism spectrum disorders. Genetic factors alone cannot account for
this rise in prevalence. Researchers at the Mailman School, led by Dr. Mady
Hornig, created an animal model to explore the relationship between
thimerosal (ethylmercury) and autism, hypothesizing that the combination of
genetic susceptibility and environmental exposure to mercury in childhood
vaccines may cause neurotoxicity.

Cumulative mercury burden through other sources, including in utero
exposures to mercury in fish or vaccines, may also lead to damage in
susceptible hosts. Timing and quantity of thimerosal dosing for the mouse
model were developed using the U.S. immunization schedule for children, with
doses calculated for mice based on 10th percentile weight of U.S. boys at
age two, four, six, and twelve months.

The researchers found the subset of autoimmune disease susceptible mice with
thimerosal exposure to express many important aspects of the behavioral and
neuropathologic features of autism spectrum disorders, including:

Abnormal response to novel environments;

Behavioral impoverishment (limited range of behaviors and decreased
exploration of environment); Significant abnormalities in brain
architecture, affecting areas subserving emotion and cognition; Increased
brain size.

These findings have relevance for identification of autism cases relating to
environmental factors; design of treatment strategies; and development of
rational immunization programs. The use of thimerosal in vaccines has been
reduced over the past few years, although it is still present in some
influenza vaccines. Identifying the connection between genetic
susceptibility and an environmental trigger for autism--in this case
thimerosal exposure--is important because it may promote discovery of
effective interventions for and limit exposure in a specific population,
stated the lead author Dr. Mady Hornig. Because the developing brain can be
exposed to toxins that are long gone by the time symptoms appear, clues
gathered in these animal models can then be evaluated through prospective
human birth cohorts--providing a powerful to tool to dissect the interaction
between genes and the environment over time.

Citation source: Molecular Psychiatry 2004 Volume 9, advance on line
publication doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001529

For further information on this work, please contact Mady Hornig, MD,
Columbia University, Mailman School of Public Health, Greene Infectious
Disease Laboratory, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032, United States
of America, phone: 212-342-9036; FAX: 949-824-1229; e-mail:
mh2092@columbia.edu

ARTICLE: "Neurotoxic effects of postnatal thimerosal are mouse
strain-dependent"

M Hornig, D Chian, W. I. Lipkin

Greene Infectious Disease Laboratory, Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032

"JohnDoe"  wrote in message 
news:434bac9b$0$12671$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl...

> lynndb wrote:
>
>> I am not anti-vac !!, both my children had the MMR jabs. I also
>> understand that a widespread epidemic could potentially be tragic. Im
>> just shocked at how blinkered some people have become, why try to
>> strike someone off when they devote their entire lives to changing
>> others lives for the better, and its all well and good going along with
>> the research we are given to read, but surely when you actually see
>> children who are damaged by vaccine, each and everyone of us would want
>> to start asking questions and find out why !!
>>
>
> I for one did not claim you were anti-vac. I just noted that despite your 
> claim that it seems you only get to hear one side, you obviously got 
> information from both sides, therefor falsifying that claim. And the 
> immensily flawed study claiming a link between vaccines and autism got 
> way, way more attention then followup studies which showed why the 
> original study was flawed and that found no link at all.
>
> And yes, surely when you actually see children who *seem to be* (!!) 
> damaged by vaccines you start to ask questions. And these questions were 
> asked, matters were researched and it turns out that as far as autism is 
> concerned, there is zero evidence to be found that vaccines cause autism. 
> The evidence we have clearly shows that if we actually want to find a 
> cause for autism, we should stop wasting valuable time and money into 
> looking at vaccines as a cause. Any further waste of sparse resources on 
> research in that direction will distract from finding the real cause of 
> autism and is therefor damaging to all people suffering from autism.


There is a group here who are *organized medicine* members, their ONLY aim 
is to protect *organized medicine*, they also do NOT think people should 
have the right to chose. They want all people who chose not to vaccinate 
their children to burn in hell and some want to watch!


   http://www.flu.org.cn/news/2004986362.htm
      Thimerosal,New study reopens debate on vaccinations
      Published: Sep ,8,2004 16:21 PM
      By ###
      Special to The Wall Street Journal & Medicalnewstoday



By Tara Parker-Pope
The Wall Street Journal

Just a few months after the nation's top medical adviser rejected a link
between vaccines and autism, a mouse study has reignited the debate and
raised new fears among parents considering vaccinations and flu shots for
their kids.


For years, a cadre of parents and physicians have contended that thimerosal,
an ethyl-mercury compound that has been one of the most widely used vaccine
preservatives, is partly responsible for an apparent rise in autism in
recent decades. But broad population studies haven't supported the claim. In
May, a major report from the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety
Review Committee rejected a link between autism and vaccines.



But today, a congressional committee will review a June study from Columbia
University, which found that a preservative used in vaccines can cause
autism-like symptoms in a specific strain of mice. The research raises
questions about whether some people might be genetically vulnerable to the
effects of thimerosal.



The study also raises questions about a new push by the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention to add flu shots to the immunization schedule for
school-age kids. The vast majority of flu shots given still contain the
preservative.



In the study, researchers administered thimerosal to four strains of young
mice. Three of the mice strains were unaffected by thimerosal, but the
fourth developed problems consistent with autism such as delayed growth,
social withdrawal and brain abnormalities. The mice were known to have a
genetic susceptibility to mercury.



Thimerosal, found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of
autism-like damage in mice



A new study indicates that postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a mercury
preservative commonly used in a number of childhood vaccines, can lead to
the development of autism-like damage in autoimmune disease susceptible
mice. This animal model, the first to show that the administration of
low-dose ethylmercury can lead to behavioral and neurological changes in the
developing brain, reinforces previous studies showing that a genetic
predisposition affects risk in combination with certain environmental
triggers. The study was conducted by researchers at the Jerome L. and Dawn
Greene

Infectious Disease Laboratory at the Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University. Over the past 20 years, there has been a striking
increase--at least ten-fold since 1985--in the number of children diagnosed
with autism spectrum disorders. Genetic factors alone cannot account for
this rise in prevalence. Researchers at the Mailman School, led by Dr. Mady
Hornig, created an animal model to explore the relationship between
thimerosal (ethylmercury) and autism, hypothesizing that the combination of
genetic susceptibility and environmental exposure to mercury in childhood
vaccines may cause neurotoxicity.

Cumulative mercury burden through other sources, including in utero
exposures to mercury in fish or vaccines, may also lead to damage in
susceptible hosts. Timing and quantity of thimerosal dosing for the mouse
model were developed using the U.S. immunization schedule for children, with
doses calculated for mice based on 10th percentile weight of U.S. boys at
age two, four, six, and twelve months.

The researchers found the subset of autoimmune disease susceptible mice with
thimerosal exposure to express many important aspects of the behavioral and
neuropathologic features of autism spectrum disorders, including:

Abnormal response to novel environments;

Behavioral impoverishment (limited range of behaviors and decreased
exploration of environment); Significant abnormalities in brain
architecture, affecting areas subserving emotion and cognition; Increased
brain size.

These findings have relevance for identification of autism cases relating to
environmental factors; design of treatment strategies; and development of
rational immunization programs. The use of thimerosal in vaccines has been
reduced over the past few years, although it is still present in some
influenza vaccines. Identifying the connection between genetic
susceptibility and an environmental trigger for autism--in this case
thimerosal exposure--is important because it may promote discovery of
effective interventions for and limit exposure in a specific population,
stated the lead author Dr. Mady Hornig. Because the developing brain can be
exposed to toxins that are long gone by the time symptoms appear, clues
gathered in these animal models can then be evaluated through prospective
human birth cohorts--providing a powerful to tool to dissect the interaction
between genes and the environment over time.

Citation source: Molecular Psychiatry 2004 Volume 9, advance on line
publication doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001529

For further information on this work, please contact Mady Hornig, MD,
Columbia University, Mailman School of Public Health, Greene Infectious
Disease Laboratory, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032, United States
of America, phone: 212-342-9036; FAX: 949-824-1229; e-mail:
mh2092@columbia.edu

ARTICLE: "Neurotoxic effects of postnatal thimerosal are mouse
strain-dependent"

M Hornig, D Chian, W. I. Lipkin

Greene Infectious Disease Laboratory, Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032

"cathyb"  wrote in message 
news:1129026621.348906.299650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> lynndb wrote:
>> Do you not think that sometimes we are only given the information that
>> certain people want us to hear ?? It is curious that the government
>> have a huge fund for vaccine damage considering many think it doesnt
>> happen !
>
> No-one thinks vaccine damage doesn't happen. The chances of it
> happening are vanishingly small, however, compared to the damage that
> would occur to many should we lose the herd immunity we have acquired
> to many diseases thanks to vaccination.
>
> However, this particular vaccine damage has been shown not to happen in
> many, huge studies.
>
> No-one stopped the original study from being published, and it was
> publicised massively. Which is more than can be said for the facts that
> emerged: that the study was carried out on fewer than ten children,
> that Wakefield was working at that time with lawyers of parents who
> were suing vaccine manufacturers, and that the conclusions of the study
> were repudiated by the other authors and the journal that published it.
>
> And even the fact that none of the massive epidemiological studies that
> have been carried out to find a link between the vaccine and autism
> have found none has received as much publicity as that original
> massively flawed study.
>
> So, in this case, no I don't think that 'sometimes we are only given
> the information that certain people want us to hear'.
>
> Cathy


That's a bunch of BS!

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/fdahypocracy.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/autismhg.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/asdexperts.htm

> 

"Mark Probert"  wrote in message 
news:NcP2f.2582$Hm3.1820@fe09.lga...

> lynndb wrote:
>> Do you not think that sometimes we are only given the information that
>> certain people want us to hear ?? It is curious that the government
>> have a huge fund for vaccine damage considering many think it doesnt
>> happen !
>
>
> No sequitur. However, several large epidemiological studies on various 
> populations have shown that there is no link. The findings have been 
> replicated and duplicated, which is one of the hallmarks of scientific 
> accuracy.



   http://www.flu.org.cn/news/2004986362.htm
      Thimerosal,New study reopens debate on vaccinations
      Published: Sep ,8,2004 16:21 PM
      By ###
      Special to The Wall Street Journal & Medicalnewstoday



By Tara Parker-Pope
The Wall Street Journal

Just a few months after the nation's top medical adviser rejected a link
between vaccines and autism, a mouse study has reignited the debate and
raised new fears among parents considering vaccinations and flu shots for
their kids.


For years, a cadre of parents and physicians have contended that thimerosal,
an ethyl-mercury compound that has been one of the most widely used vaccine
preservatives, is partly responsible for an apparent rise in autism in
recent decades. But broad population studies haven't supported the claim. In
May, a major report from the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety
Review Committee rejected a link between autism and vaccines.



But today, a congressional committee will review a June study from Columbia
University, which found that a preservative used in vaccines can cause
autism-like symptoms in a specific strain of mice. The research raises
questions about whether some people might be genetically vulnerable to the
effects of thimerosal.



The study also raises questions about a new push by the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention to add flu shots to the immunization schedule for
school-age kids. The vast majority of flu shots given still contain the
preservative.



In the study, researchers administered thimerosal to four strains of young
mice. Three of the mice strains were unaffected by thimerosal, but the
fourth developed problems consistent with autism such as delayed growth,
social withdrawal and brain abnormalities. The mice were known to have a
genetic susceptibility to mercury.



Thimerosal, found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of
autism-like damage in mice



A new study indicates that postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a mercury
preservative commonly used in a number of childhood vaccines, can lead to
the development of autism-like damage in autoimmune disease susceptible
mice. This animal model, the first to show that the administration of
low-dose ethylmercury can lead to behavioral and neurological changes in the
developing brain, reinforces previous studies showing that a genetic
predisposition affects risk in combination with certain environmental
triggers. The study was conducted by researchers at the Jerome L. and Dawn
Greene

Infectious Disease Laboratory at the Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University. Over the past 20 years, there has been a striking
increase--at least ten-fold since 1985--in the number of children diagnosed
with autism spectrum disorders. Genetic factors alone cannot account for
this rise in prevalence. Researchers at the Mailman School, led by Dr. Mady
Hornig, created an animal model to explore the relationship between
thimerosal (ethylmercury) and autism, hypothesizing that the combination of
genetic susceptibility and environmental exposure to mercury in childhood
vaccines may cause neurotoxicity.

Cumulative mercury burden through other sources, including in utero
exposures to mercury in fish or vaccines, may also lead to damage in
susceptible hosts. Timing and quantity of thimerosal dosing for the mouse
model were developed using the U.S. immunization schedule for children, with
doses calculated for mice based on 10th percentile weight of U.S. boys at
age two, four, six, and twelve months.

The researchers found the subset of autoimmune disease susceptible mice with
thimerosal exposure to express many important aspects of the behavioral and
neuropathologic features of autism spectrum disorders, including:

Abnormal response to novel environments;

Behavioral impoverishment (limited range of behaviors and decreased
exploration of environment); Significant abnormalities in brain
architecture, affecting areas subserving emotion and cognition; Increased
brain size.

These findings have relevance for identification of autism cases relating to
environmental factors; design of treatment strategies; and development of
rational immunization programs. The use of thimerosal in vaccines has been
reduced over the past few years, although it is still present in some
influenza vaccines. Identifying the connection between genetic
susceptibility and an environmental trigger for autism--in this case
thimerosal exposure--is important because it may promote discovery of
effective interventions for and limit exposure in a specific population,
stated the lead author Dr. Mady Hornig. Because the developing brain can be
exposed to toxins that are long gone by the time symptoms appear, clues
gathered in these animal models can then be evaluated through prospective
human birth cohorts--providing a powerful to tool to dissect the interaction
between genes and the environment over time.

Citation source: Molecular Psychiatry 2004 Volume 9, advance on line
publication doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001529

For further information on this work, please contact Mady Hornig, MD,
Columbia University, Mailman School of Public Health, Greene Infectious
Disease Laboratory, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032, United States
of America, phone: 212-342-9036; FAX: 949-824-1229; e-mail:
mh2092@columbia.edu

ARTICLE: "Neurotoxic effects of postnatal thimerosal are mouse
strain-dependent"

M Hornig, D Chian, W. I. Lipkin

Greene Infectious Disease Laboratory, Mailman School of Public Health,
Columbia University, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032

"Mark Probert"  wrote in message 
news:wfP2f.2584$Hm3.826@fe09.lga...

> LadyLollipop wrote:
>> "Mark Probert"  wrote in message 
>> news:TVz2f.10063$dl2.4396@fe08.lga...
>>
>>>LadyLollipop wrote:
>>>
>>>>"HCN"  wrote
>>>>
>>>><snip diversion>
>>>
>>><snip diversion + insult>

>
>
>>>
>>>>>"john"  wrote in message 
>>>>>news:1128843744.707247.10080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm being driven out says second expert to link autism and jabs
>>>>>>By Daniel Foggo
>>>>>>(Filed: 02/10/2005)
>>>>>>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/02/naut02.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/02/ixhome.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> 

LadyLollipop wrote:

> "cathyb"  wrote in message
> news:1129026621.348906.299650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > lynndb wrote:
> >> Do you not think that sometimes we are only given the information that
> >> certain people want us to hear ?? It is curious that the government
> >> have a huge fund for vaccine damage considering many think it doesnt
> >> happen !
> >
> > No-one thinks vaccine damage doesn't happen. The chances of it
> > happening are vanishingly small, however, compared to the damage that
> > would occur to many should we lose the herd immunity we have acquired
> > to many diseases thanks to vaccination.
> >
> > However, this particular vaccine damage has been shown not to happen in
> > many, huge studies.
> >
> > No-one stopped the original study from being published, and it was
> > publicised massively. Which is more than can be said for the facts that
> > emerged: that the study was carried out on fewer than ten children,
> > that Wakefield was working at that time with lawyers of parents who
> > were suing vaccine manufacturers, and that the conclusions of the study
> > were repudiated by the other authors and the journal that published it.
> >
> > And even the fact that none of the massive epidemiological studies that
> > have been carried out to find a link between the vaccine and autism
> > have found none has received as much publicity as that original
> > massively flawed study.
> >
> > So, in this case, no I don't think that 'sometimes we are only given
> > the information that certain people want us to hear'.
> >
> > Cathy
>
> That's a bunch of BS!


Excellent argument. La Lollipop demonstrates her incisive grasp of the
issues once more. Of course she can't refute any point made, so she
comes up with..."BS!". Brilliant.

Cathy

<snip Lollicrap>

"HCN"  wrote in message 
news:VaKdnQ6X0b3OW9beRVn-gQ@comcast.com...

>
> "lynndb"  wrote in message 
> news:1129017905.882231.290970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>> with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>> we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>> has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>> hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>>
>> Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>> children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>> who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>> this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>> affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>> that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>> our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>> that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>> damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>> the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>> children to.
>>
>
> One major caveat:  Ms. Blackmore-Brown is a psychologist.  This means she 
> is not a medical doctor and if she is "diagnosing" some kind of "vaccine 
> damage" due to thimerosal she is going beyond her training.  If she is in 
> fact trying to play "doctor" then she should be disciplined (and a quick 
> Google search finds that this is not the first time that she has been 
> checked out).
>
> I have heard of speech therapists who have actually tried to "diagnose" 
> medical problems or have tried to refer children to chiropractors, cranial 
> sacral therapists or even to recommend supplements.  This is also OUTside 
> their boundaries, and can bring their licensing board upon them 
> (especially if they have a relationship with any of the outside 
> providers).
>
> Do you have any papers written by this person?  Do you have any journal 
> references on this "research" you speak of (forget Wakefield or anything 
> written in "Medical Hypothesis"... the former because his "research was 
> bought and paid for by lawyers, and the latter requires you to look up the 
> definition of the word "hypothesis").


That *excuse* won't work.

One even a parent can quickly see that AFTER a child gets their vaccination, 
and can NOT speak correctly, they KNOW what caused it!!! This is NOT a 
coincidence!!!!!!!!

Save you speech for an idiot.

Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy

>> children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>> who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>> this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>> affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>> that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>> our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>> that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>> damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>> the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>> children to.

"Mark Probert"  wrote in message 
news:bTP2f.2605$Hm3.1735@fe09.lga...

> HCN wrote:


What an *idiot* can see through easily, poor Mark.

<snip>


>> "lynndb"  wrote in message 
>> news:1129017905.882231.290970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>>>with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>>>we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>>>has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>>>hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>>>
>>>Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>>>children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>>>who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>>>this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>>>affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>>>that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>>>our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>>>that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>>>damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>>>the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>>>children to.
>>>
>>

>> 

"HCN"  wrote

Poor HCN, found one idiot who fell for his excuse.

Snip>

>
> "Mark Probert 

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:04:06 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
 wrote:


> They want all people who chose not to vaccinate 
>their children to burn in hell and some want to watch!

>>From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com)
>>Date: 2001-05-28 12:14:24 PST 
>
>
> 
>>Mark.................
>>
>>Drop dead.
>

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

Best defense to logic is ignorance

LadyLollipop wrote:

> "Mark Probert"  wrote in message 
> news:NcP2f.2582$Hm3.1820@fe09.lga...
> 
>>lynndb wrote:
>>
>>>Do you not think that sometimes we are only given the information that
>>>certain people want us to hear ?? It is curious that the government
>>>have a huge fund for vaccine damage considering many think it doesnt
>>>happen !
>>
>>
>>No sequitur. However, several large epidemiological studies on various 
>>populations have shown that there is no link. The findings have been 
>>replicated and duplicated, which is one of the hallmarks of scientific 
>>accuracy.


That's nice. Where is the follow-up showing that humans are affected in 
the same way?

There is none.




>    http://www.flu.org.cn/news/2004986362.htm
>       Thimerosal,New study reopens debate on vaccinations
>       Published: Sep ,8,2004 16:21 PM
>       By ###
>       Special to The Wall Street Journal & Medicalnewstoday
> 
> 
> 
> By Tara Parker-Pope
> The Wall Street Journal
> 
> Just a few months after the nation's top medical adviser rejected a link
> between vaccines and autism, a mouse study has reignited the debate and
> raised new fears among parents considering vaccinations and flu shots for
> their kids.
> 
> 
> For years, a cadre of parents and physicians have contended that thimerosal,
> an ethyl-mercury compound that has been one of the most widely used vaccine
> preservatives, is partly responsible for an apparent rise in autism in
> recent decades. But broad population studies haven't supported the claim. In
> May, a major report from the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety
> Review Committee rejected a link between autism and vaccines.
> 
> 
> 
> But today, a congressional committee will review a June study from Columbia
> University, which found that a preservative used in vaccines can cause
> autism-like symptoms in a specific strain of mice. The research raises
> questions about whether some people might be genetically vulnerable to the
> effects of thimerosal.
> 
> 
> 
> The study also raises questions about a new push by the Centers for Disease
> Control and Prevention to add flu shots to the immunization schedule for
> school-age kids. The vast majority of flu shots given still contain the
> preservative.
> 
> 
> 
> In the study, researchers administered thimerosal to four strains of young
> mice. Three of the mice strains were unaffected by thimerosal, but the
> fourth developed problems consistent with autism such as delayed growth,
> social withdrawal and brain abnormalities. The mice were known to have a
> genetic susceptibility to mercury.
> 
> 
> 
> Thimerosal, found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of
> autism-like damage in mice
> 
> 
> 
> A new study indicates that postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a mercury
> preservative commonly used in a number of childhood vaccines, can lead to
> the development of autism-like damage in autoimmune disease susceptible
> mice. This animal model, the first to show that the administration of
> low-dose ethylmercury can lead to behavioral and neurological changes in the
> developing brain, reinforces previous studies showing that a genetic
> predisposition affects risk in combination with certain environmental
> triggers. The study was conducted by researchers at the Jerome L. and Dawn
> Greene
> 
> Infectious Disease Laboratory at the Mailman School of Public Health,
> Columbia University. Over the past 20 years, there has been a striking
> increase--at least ten-fold since 1985--in the number of children diagnosed
> with autism spectrum disorders. Genetic factors alone cannot account for
> this rise in prevalence. Researchers at the Mailman School, led by Dr. Mady
> Hornig, created an animal model to explore the relationship between
> thimerosal (ethylmercury) and autism, hypothesizing that the combination of
> genetic susceptibility and environmental exposure to mercury in childhood
> vaccines may cause neurotoxicity.
> 
> Cumulative mercury burden through other sources, including in utero
> exposures to mercury in fish or vaccines, may also lead to damage in
> susceptible hosts. Timing and quantity of thimerosal dosing for the mouse
> model were developed using the U.S. immunization schedule for children, with
> doses calculated for mice based on 10th percentile weight of U.S. boys at
> age two, four, six, and twelve months.
> 
> The researchers found the subset of autoimmune disease susceptible mice with
> thimerosal exposure to express many important aspects of the behavioral and
> neuropathologic features of autism spectrum disorders, including:
> 
> Abnormal response to novel environments;
> 
> Behavioral impoverishment (limited range of behaviors and decreased
> exploration of environment); Significant abnormalities in brain
> architecture, affecting areas subserving emotion and cognition; Increased
> brain size.
> 
> These findings have relevance for identification of autism cases relating to
> environmental factors; design of treatment strategies; and development of
> rational immunization programs. The use of thimerosal in vaccines has been
> reduced over the past few years, although it is still present in some
> influenza vaccines. Identifying the connection between genetic
> susceptibility and an environmental trigger for autism--in this case
> thimerosal exposure--is important because it may promote discovery of
> effective interventions for and limit exposure in a specific population,
> stated the lead author Dr. Mady Hornig. Because the developing brain can be
> exposed to toxins that are long gone by the time symptoms appear, clues
> gathered in these animal models can then be evaluated through prospective
> human birth cohorts--providing a powerful to tool to dissect the interaction
> between genes and the environment over time.
> 
> Citation source: Molecular Psychiatry 2004 Volume 9, advance on line
> publication doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001529
> 
> For further information on this work, please contact Mady Hornig, MD,
> Columbia University, Mailman School of Public Health, Greene Infectious
> Disease Laboratory, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032, United States
> of America, phone: 212-342-9036; FAX: 949-824-1229; e-mail:
> mh2092@columbia.edu
> 
> ARTICLE: "Neurotoxic effects of postnatal thimerosal are mouse
> strain-dependent"
> 
> M Hornig, D Chian, W. I. Lipkin
> 
> Greene Infectious Disease Laboratory, Mailman School of Public Health,
> Columbia University, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032 
> 
> 

LadyLollipop wrote:

> "cathyb"  wrote in message 
> news:1129026621.348906.299650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> 
>>lynndb wrote:
>>
>>>Do you not think that sometimes we are only given the information that
>>>certain people want us to hear ?? It is curious that the government
>>>have a huge fund for vaccine damage considering many think it doesnt
>>>happen !
>>
>>No-one thinks vaccine damage doesn't happen. The chances of it
>>happening are vanishingly small, however, compared to the damage that
>>would occur to many should we lose the herd immunity we have acquired
>>to many diseases thanks to vaccination.
>>
>>However, this particular vaccine damage has been shown not to happen in
>>many, huge studies.
>>
>>No-one stopped the original study from being published, and it was
>>publicised massively. Which is more than can be said for the facts that
>>emerged: that the study was carried out on fewer than ten children,
>>that Wakefield was working at that time with lawyers of parents who
>>were suing vaccine manufacturers, and that the conclusions of the study
>>were repudiated by the other authors and the journal that published it.
>>
>>And even the fact that none of the massive epidemiological studies that
>>have been carried out to find a link between the vaccine and autism
>>have found none has received as much publicity as that original
>>massively flawed study.
>>
>>So, in this case, no I don't think that 'sometimes we are only given
>>the information that certain people want us to hear'.
>>
>>Cathy
> 
> 
> That's a bunch of BS!
> 
> http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/fdahypocracy.htm
> 
> http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/autismhg.htm
> 
> http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/asdexperts.htm


There was no BS until you posted Haley's profit driven sites.

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:30:20 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
 wrote:


>
>Poor HCN, found one idiot who fell for his excuse.

>On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 04:57:03 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
> wrote:
>
>>You belittle others because you can't accept the consequences for your own 
>>mistakes.
>
>On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:50:11 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
> wrote:
>
>>This forum is to voice your opinion, not to belittle others.
>
>On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 05:07:37 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
> wrote:
>
>>only those filled with hate have a 
>>need to belittle and call names.
>


-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

Best defense to logic is ignorance

LadyLollipop wrote:

> "Mark Probert"  wrote in message 
> news:wfP2f.2584$Hm3.826@fe09.lga...
> 
>>LadyLollipop wrote:
>>
>>>"Mark Probert"  wrote in message 
>>>news:TVz2f.10063$dl2.4396@fe08.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>LadyLollipop wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"HCN"  wrote
>>>>>
>>>>><snip diversion>
>>>>
>>>><snip diversion + insult>


Jan CANNOT handle the truth!

It is not a diversion to ppoint out that this physician is following in 
Wakefield's slime which caused a massive epidemic in Great Britain. Only 
a child hater would think otherwise.





> 
> 
>>
>>>>>>"john"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>news:1128843744.707247.10080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm being driven out says second expert to link autism and jabs
>>>>>>>By Daniel Foggo
>>>>>>>(Filed: 02/10/2005)
>>>>>>>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/02/naut02.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/02/ixhome.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> 
> 

LadyLollipop wrote:

> "JohnDoe"  wrote in message 
> news:434bac9b$0$12671$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl...
> 
>>lynndb wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I am not anti-vac !!, both my children had the MMR jabs. I also
>>>understand that a widespread epidemic could potentially be tragic. Im
>>>just shocked at how blinkered some people have become, why try to
>>>strike someone off when they devote their entire lives to changing
>>>others lives for the better, and its all well and good going along with
>>>the research we are given to read, but surely when you actually see
>>>children who are damaged by vaccine, each and everyone of us would want
>>>to start asking questions and find out why !!
>>>
>>
>>I for one did not claim you were anti-vac. I just noted that despite your 
>>claim that it seems you only get to hear one side, you obviously got 
>>information from both sides, therefor falsifying that claim. And the 
>>immensily flawed study claiming a link between vaccines and autism got 
>>way, way more attention then followup studies which showed why the 
>>original study was flawed and that found no link at all.
>>
>>And yes, surely when you actually see children who *seem to be* (!!) 
>>damaged by vaccines you start to ask questions. And these questions were 
>>asked, matters were researched and it turns out that as far as autism is 
>>concerned, there is zero evidence to be found that vaccines cause autism. 
>>The evidence we have clearly shows that if we actually want to find a 
>>cause for autism, we should stop wasting valuable time and money into 
>>looking at vaccines as a cause. Any further waste of sparse resources on 
>>research in that direction will distract from finding the real cause of 
>>autism and is therefor damaging to all people suffering from autism.
> 
> 
> There is a group here who are *organized medicine* members,


Please define *organized medicine*.


> their ONLY aim 
> is to protect *organized medicine*, 


Nope, dope. Our aim is to protect the truth, something that scares you.

they also do NOT think people should

> have the right to chose. 


WRONG, thimerosal breath. People have the right to choose to leave their 
children unprotected against childhood diseases. I also have the right 
to call that criminal child neglect.

They want all people who chose not to vaccinate

> their children to burn in hell and some want to watch!


Actually, we want to prevent them from making a tragic mistake. That is 
why we use facts and verifiable information.

You use scaremongering.




> 
>    http://www.flu.org.cn/news/2004986362.htm
>       Thimerosal,New study reopens debate on vaccinations
>       Published: Sep ,8,2004 16:21 PM
>       By ###
>       Special to The Wall Street Journal & Medicalnewstoday
> 
> 
> 
> By Tara Parker-Pope
> The Wall Street Journal
> 
> Just a few months after the nation's top medical adviser rejected a link
> between vaccines and autism, a mouse study has reignited the debate and
> raised new fears among parents considering vaccinations and flu shots for
> their kids.
> 
> 
> For years, a cadre of parents and physicians have contended that thimerosal,
> an ethyl-mercury compound that has been one of the most widely used vaccine
> preservatives, is partly responsible for an apparent rise in autism in
> recent decades. But broad population studies haven't supported the claim. In
> May, a major report from the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety
> Review Committee rejected a link between autism and vaccines.
> 
> 
> 
> But today, a congressional committee will review a June study from Columbia
> University, which found that a preservative used in vaccines can cause
> autism-like symptoms in a specific strain of mice. The research raises
> questions about whether some people might be genetically vulnerable to the
> effects of thimerosal.
> 
> 
> 
> The study also raises questions about a new push by the Centers for Disease
> Control and Prevention to add flu shots to the immunization schedule for
> school-age kids. The vast majority of flu shots given still contain the
> preservative.
> 
> 
> 
> In the study, researchers administered thimerosal to four strains of young
> mice. Three of the mice strains were unaffected by thimerosal, but the
> fourth developed problems consistent with autism such as delayed growth,
> social withdrawal and brain abnormalities. The mice were known to have a
> genetic susceptibility to mercury.
> 
> 
> 
> Thimerosal, found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of
> autism-like damage in mice
> 
> 
> 
> A new study indicates that postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a mercury
> preservative commonly used in a number of childhood vaccines, can lead to
> the development of autism-like damage in autoimmune disease susceptible
> mice. This animal model, the first to show that the administration of
> low-dose ethylmercury can lead to behavioral and neurological changes in the
> developing brain, reinforces previous studies showing that a genetic
> predisposition affects risk in combination with certain environmental
> triggers. The study was conducted by researchers at the Jerome L. and Dawn
> Greene
> 
> Infectious Disease Laboratory at the Mailman School of Public Health,
> Columbia University. Over the past 20 years, there has been a striking
> increase--at least ten-fold since 1985--in the number of children diagnosed
> with autism spectrum disorders. Genetic factors alone cannot account for
> this rise in prevalence. Researchers at the Mailman School, led by Dr. Mady
> Hornig, created an animal model to explore the relationship between
> thimerosal (ethylmercury) and autism, hypothesizing that the combination of
> genetic susceptibility and environmental exposure to mercury in childhood
> vaccines may cause neurotoxicity.
> 
> Cumulative mercury burden through other sources, including in utero
> exposures to mercury in fish or vaccines, may also lead to damage in
> susceptible hosts. Timing and quantity of thimerosal dosing for the mouse
> model were developed using the U.S. immunization schedule for children, with
> doses calculated for mice based on 10th percentile weight of U.S. boys at
> age two, four, six, and twelve months.
> 
> The researchers found the subset of autoimmune disease susceptible mice with
> thimerosal exposure to express many important aspects of the behavioral and
> neuropathologic features of autism spectrum disorders, including:
> 
> Abnormal response to novel environments;
> 
> Behavioral impoverishment (limited range of behaviors and decreased
> exploration of environment); Significant abnormalities in brain
> architecture, affecting areas subserving emotion and cognition; Increased
> brain size.
> 
> These findings have relevance for identification of autism cases relating to
> environmental factors; design of treatment strategies; and development of
> rational immunization programs. The use of thimerosal in vaccines has been
> reduced over the past few years, although it is still present in some
> influenza vaccines. Identifying the connection between genetic
> susceptibility and an environmental trigger for autism--in this case
> thimerosal exposure--is important because it may promote discovery of
> effective interventions for and limit exposure in a specific population,
> stated the lead author Dr. Mady Hornig. Because the developing brain can be
> exposed to toxins that are long gone by the time symptoms appear, clues
> gathered in these animal models can then be evaluated through prospective
> human birth cohorts--providing a powerful to tool to dissect the interaction
> between genes and the environment over time.
> 
> Citation source: Molecular Psychiatry 2004 Volume 9, advance on line
> publication doi:10.1038/sj.mp.4001529
> 
> For further information on this work, please contact Mady Hornig, MD,
> Columbia University, Mailman School of Public Health, Greene Infectious
> Disease Laboratory, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032, United States
> of America, phone: 212-342-9036; FAX: 949-824-1229; e-mail:
> mh2092@columbia.edu
> 
> ARTICLE: "Neurotoxic effects of postnatal thimerosal are mouse
> strain-dependent"
> 
> M Hornig, D Chian, W. I. Lipkin
> 
> Greene Infectious Disease Laboratory, Mailman School of Public Health,
> Columbia University, 722 W 168th St, New York, New York 10032 
> 
> 

LadyLollipop wrote:

> "HCN"  wrote
> 
> Poor HCN, found one idiot who fell for his excuse.
> 
> Snip>
> 
>>"Mark Probert 


So, you do not like the fact that the quack was discredited, eh?

LadyLollipop wrote:

> "Mark Probert"  wrote in message 
> news:bTP2f.2605$Hm3.1735@fe09.lga...
> 
>>HCN wrote:
> 
> 
> What an *idiot* can see through easily, poor Mark.


If that were so, you would have 20/20 vision.

The facts are:

Google Scholar:

Your search - Lisa Blackmore-Brown - did not match any articles.

Your search - Blackmore-Brown - did not match any articles.

PublicMed:

The following term was not found and ignored: Blackmore-Brown.

http://www.highbeam.com/ref/ref_search.asp?M=Y&more=1

No results found for Blackmore-Brown..

Jan does not like facts.


> 
> <snip>
> 
>>>"lynndb"  wrote in message 
>>>news:1129017905.882231.290970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>>>>with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>>>>we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>>>>has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>>>>hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>>>>
>>>>Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>>>>children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>>>>who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>>>>this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>>>>affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>>>>that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>>>>our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>>>>that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>>>>damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>>>>the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>>>>children to.
>>>>
>>>
> 
> 

LadyLollipop wrote:

> "HCN"  wrote in message 
> news:VaKdnQ6X0b3OW9beRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> 
>>"lynndb"  wrote in message 
>>news:1129017905.882231.290970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>>>with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>>>we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>>>has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>>>hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>>>
>>>Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>>>children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>>>who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>>>this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>>>affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>>>that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>>>our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>>>that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>>>damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>>>the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>>>children to.
>>>
>>
>>One major caveat:  Ms. Blackmore-Brown is a psychologist.  This means she 
>>is not a medical doctor and if she is "diagnosing" some kind of "vaccine 
>>damage" due to thimerosal she is going beyond her training.  If she is in 
>>fact trying to play "doctor" then she should be disciplined (and a quick 
>>Google search finds that this is not the first time that she has been 
>>checked out).
>>
>>I have heard of speech therapists who have actually tried to "diagnose" 
>>medical problems or have tried to refer children to chiropractors, cranial 
>>sacral therapists or even to recommend supplements.  This is also OUTside 
>>their boundaries, and can bring their licensing board upon them 
>>(especially if they have a relationship with any of the outside 
>>providers).
>>
>>Do you have any papers written by this person?  Do you have any journal 
>>references on this "research" you speak of (forget Wakefield or anything 
>>written in "Medical Hypothesis"... the former because his "research was 
>>bought and paid for by lawyers, and the latter requires you to look up the 
>>definition of the word "hypothesis").
> 
> 
> That *excuse* won't work.
> 
> One even a parent can quickly see that AFTER a child gets their vaccination, 
> and can NOT speak correctly, they KNOW what caused it!!! This is NOT a 
> coincidence!!!!!!!!
> 
> Save you speech for an idiot.


That is just exactly why I speak to you!


> 
> Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
> 
>>>children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>>>who could no longer speak or function as they had previously ... could
>>>this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>>>affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>>>that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>>>our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>>>that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>>>damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>>>the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>>>children to.
> 
> 
> 

"lynndb"  wrote:


>I think if you took the time to speak with many parents of children
>with learning disabilities, who have spent years fighting the 'system'
>we have in place to educate a 'normal' child, you may find that Lisa
>has changed things beyond expectation for their children, giving them
>hope and the help they need for a happier future.
>
>Many of her cases have involved children who were happy healthy
>children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into children
>who could no longer speak or function as they had previously


None of her cases "have involved children who were happy healthy
children the day before they were vaccinated, then turned into
children who could no longer speak or function as they had
previously". She is lying.


> ... could
>this be purely coincidence !!!. Im sure that the vaccine does not
>affect each and everyone of us that decides to have it, but children
>that are suseptable to a reaction can be affected, why should we put
>our childrens lives at risk in this way ?, all that is being asked is
>that fair research is done, and that it is accepted that it can be
>damaging. It should be every parents right to know the truth and have
>the choice to make a balanced decision as to what we subject our
>children to.


The research has been done. There is no link between vaccination and
autism. Only liars and the deluded continue to believe that there is.
-- 
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

> LadyLollipop wrote:
>> "JohnDoe"  wrote in message 
>> news:434bac9b$0$12671$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl...
>>
>>>lynndb wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am not anti-vac !!, both my children had the MMR jabs. I also
>>>>understand that a widespread epidemic could potentially be tragic. Im
>>>>just shocked at how blinkered some people have become, why try to
>>>>strike someone off when they devote their entire lives to changing
>>>>others lives for the better, and its all well and good going along with
>>>>the research we are given to read, but surely when you actually see
>>>>children who are damaged by vaccine, each and everyone of us would want
>>>>to start asking questions and find out why !!
>>>>
>>>
>>>I for one did not claim you were anti-vac. I just noted that despite your 
>>>claim that it seems you only get to hear one side, you obviously got 
>>>information from both sides, therefor falsifying that claim. And the 
>>>immensily flawed study claiming a link between vaccines and autism got 
>>>way, way more attention then followup studies which showed why the 
>>>original study was flawed and that found no link at all.
>>>
>>>And yes, surely when you actually see children who *seem to be* (!!) 
>>>damaged by vaccines you start to ask questions. And these questions were 
>>>asked, matters were researched and it turns out that as far as autism is 
>>>concerned, there is zero evidence to be found that vaccines cause autism. 
>>>The evidence we have clearly shows that if we actually want to find a 
>>>cause for autism, we should stop wasting valuable time and money into 
>>>looking at vaccines as a cause. Any further waste of sparse resources on 
>>>research in that direction will distract from finding the real cause of 
>>>autism and is therefor damaging to all people suffering from autism.
>>
>>
>> There is a group here who are *organized medicine* members,
>
>
>> their ONLY aim is to protect *organized medicine*,  they also do NOT 
>> think people should have the right to chose.
>
> They want all people who chose not to vaccinate
>> their children to burn in hell and some want to watch!
>>
>>    http://www.flu.org.cn/news/2004986362.htm
>>       Thimerosal,New study reopens debate on vaccinations
>>       Published: Sep ,8,2004 16:21 PM
>>       By ###
>>       Special to The Wall Street Journal & Medicalnewstoday
>>
>>
>>
>> By Tara Parker-Pope
>> The Wall Street Journal
>>
>> Just a few months after the nation's top medical adviser rejected a link
>> between vaccines and autism, a mouse study has reignited the debate and
>> raised new fears among parents considering vaccinations and flu shots for
>> their kids.
>>
>>
>> For years, a cadre of parents and physicians have contended that 
>> thimerosal,
>> an ethyl-mercury compound that has been one of the most widely used 
>> vaccine
>> preservatives, is partly responsible for an apparent rise in autism in
>> recent decades. But broad population studies haven't supported the claim. 
>> In
>> May, a major report from the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety
>> Review Committee rejected a link between autism and vaccines.
>>
>>
>>
>> But today, a congressional committee will review a June study from 
>> Columbia
>> University, which found that a preservative used in vaccines can cause
>> autism-like symptoms in a specific strain of mice. The research raises
>> questions about whether some people might be genetically vulnerable to 
>> the
>> effects of thimerosal.
>>
>>
>>
>> The study also raises questions about a new push by the Centers for 
>> Disease
>> Control and Prevention to add flu shots to the immunization schedule for
>> school-age kids. The vast majority of flu shots given still contain the
>> preservative.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the study, researchers administered thimerosal to four strains of 
>> young
>> mice. Three of the mice strains were unaffected by thimerosal, but the
>> fourth developed problems consistent with autism such as delayed growth,
>> social withdrawal and brain abnormalities. The mice were known to have a
>> genetic susceptibility to mercury.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thimerosal, found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of
>> autism-like damage in mice
>>
>>
>>
>> A new study indicates that postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a mercury
>> preservative commonly used in a number of childhood vaccines, can lead to
>> the development of autism-like damage in autoimmune disease susceptible
>> mice. This animal model, the first to show that the administration of
>> low-dose ethylmercury can lead to behavioral and neurological changes in 
>> the
>> developing brain, reinforces previous studies showing that a genetic
>> predisposition affects risk in combination with certain environmental
>> triggers. The study was conducted by researchers at the Jerome L. and 
>> Dawn
>> Greene
>>
>> Infectious Disease Laboratory at the Mailman School of Public Health,
>> Columbia University. Over the past 20 years, there has been a striking
>> increase--at least ten-fold since 1985--in the number of children 
>> diagnosed
>> with autism spectrum disorders. Genetic factors alone cannot account for
>> this rise in prevalence. Researchers at the Mailman School, led by Dr. 
>> Mady
>> Hornig, created an animal model to explore the relationship between
>> thimerosal (ethylmercury) and autism, hypothesizing that the combination 
>> of
>> genetic susceptibility and environmental exposure to mercury in childhood
>> vaccines may cause neurotoxicity.
>>
>> Cumulative mercury burden through other sources, including in utero
>> exposures to mercury in fish or vaccines, may also lead to damage in
>> susceptible hosts. Timing and quantity of thimerosal dosing for the mouse
>> model were developed using the U.S. immunization schedule for children, 
>> with
>> doses calculated for mice based on 10th percentile weight of U.S. boys at
>> age two, four, six, and twelve months.
>>
>> The researchers found the subset of autoimmune disease susceptible mice 
>> with
>> thimerosal exposure to express many important aspects of the behavioral 
>> and
>> neuropathologic features of autism spectrum disorders, including:
>>
>> Abnormal response to novel environments;
>>
>> Behavioral impoverishment (limited range of behaviors and decreased
>> exploration of environment); Significant abnormalities in brain
>> architecture, affecting areas subserving emotion and cognition; Increased
>> brain size.
>>
>> These findings have relevance for identification of autism cases relating 
>> to
>> environmental factors; design of treatment strategies; and development of
>> rational immunization programs. The use of thimerosal in vaccines has 
>> been
>> reduced over the past few years, although it is still present in some
>> influenza vaccines. Identifying the connection between genetic
>> susceptibility and an environmental trigger for autism--in this case
>> thimerosal exposure--is important because it may promote discovery of
>> effective interventions for and limit exposure in a specific population,
>> stated the lead author Dr. Mady Hornig.